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Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Moderator: moderatorteam
- Machie
- Zeer actief
- Berichten: 33099
- Lid geworden op: 05 okt 2009 11:20
- Mijn ras(sen): Puli, kruising golden retriever X wetterhoun, kruising Pumi, Hrvatski ovčar, Border Collie
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Bij de berg!
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Waarom noemen jullie bonte honden niet gewoon bont?
-
Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Meterik
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Moet ik ff uitleggen dat LC= Louisiana Catahoula
Louisiana Catahoula – a truly merle breed
A topic of the merle gene presence, its traits, manifestation, and heredity is widely discussed among breeders and owners of various dog breeds which are known to carry it. Therefore we had not been expecting any big revelation, when the testing among Louisiana Catahoula in our club started. There were some doubts, of course, namely when unexpected „merle“ phenotypes were born out of solid colored parents. This was also the main reason for us to start looking for an explanation.
A typical merle coat color, i.e. coat with patches of diluted pigment irregularly spread over body and intermingled with undiluted melanin, is known in several breeds, such as Australian Sphepard, Collie, Border Collie, Cardigan Welsh Corgi, Shetland Sheepdog, Dachshund, etc. However, individuals with such a merle coat coloring are not a majority in those breeds. It is probably due to breeding regulations valid for those breeds that prevent combinations of both merle colored parents. The main reason for an existence of such breeding rules is a fact that offsprings of predominantly white color (called double merle) are born from such merle parents and they are known to suffer often from a variety of serious health defects.
However, there is one breed that is famous for its merle colors and leopard patterns – Louisiana Catahoula (LC). It seems that for many breeders from country of its origin, USA, solid colored LC are not so valuable. Thus, a combination of both merle carrying parents is done on purpose to obtain merle carrying offsprings of leopard colors in spite of possible health defects. No surprice then that most dogs of this breed are the merle gene carriers and true solid colored (not carrying the merle gene) are rather rare. Nevertheless, it seems that the breed itself is not endangered by this fact seriously and the occurrence of the merle caused defects is not higher than in other merle carrying breeds.
In 2005, when our first article on this topic was written and published here, the merle gene question and its heredity seemed to be similar to other breeds, so we did not expect any difference in LC. However, the merle gene itself had not been identified yet, so there was no possibility to prove it by any other means than breeding itself. Frankly, there were not so many litters born here at that time and their „results“ fitted quite well to our expectation.
The Merle gene
In 2006, an article of Clark et al. (PNAS 103 (5): 1376-81, 2006) was published and the merle gene was finally identified. It opened an era of possible genetical testing of entire dog populations from this point of view. Clark et al. demonstrated that the gene in question is SILV (Silver locus, Pmel17). Its function is not fully understood, but it is known as one of pigment dilution genes and its significant expression is localized exclusively to the skin and eye. They proved that genetical modifications (mutations) in SILV gene affect its normal function and it results in a coat pattern where a diluted pigment is mixed with patches of normal, undiluted melanin. Non-modified SILV gene is marked as m, while modified versions are marked as M, i.e. the merle gene. Modifications in SILV gene are caused by an insertion of a mobile gene element, called retrotransposon (SINE), which can be of various length, as we know now. It seems that the length of this SINE insertion affects the way how the merle gene manifests itself in dog phenotype.
There were two modification of SILV gene described in the original article of Clark et al. The normal M gene includes the insertion of the length of 459-462 bp. (Actually, the M-specific SINE insertion has a size of about ca 253 bp. Because of coamplification of surrounding sequences of about 200 bp, the size of the amplicon is 459-462 bp then. In dogs of mm-genotype, the SINE insertion is missing, and an amplificate of only 200 bp is present.) It causes the typical merle/leopard coat pattern in dogs, heterozygous for it (mM), and the typical double merle phenotype with predominant white coloring in dogs homozygous (MM).
Another modification referred by Clark et al. contains a shorter insertion of the length of 420-425 (i.e. SINE insertion of 212-225) bp. This modification of SILV gene is called cryptic (phantom) merle, Mc, and it seemes to have no apparent effect on coat coloring. Both heterozygous (mMc) and homozygous (McMc) individuals appear to be of solid coat color, similarly as homozygous dogs with non-modified SILV gene, i.e. mm. As far as we know now, there is only one way to differentiate them from non-merle gene carriers – by genetical testing.
Both above mentioned modifications of SILV gene were described in the original article of Clark et al. They were recognized in all breeds, studied then. The merle gene seems to be inherited in an autosomal, incompletely dominant way. Offspring gets one allel of this gene from both parents and resulting genotypes are divided according to Mendel′s rules.
Catahoula Merle Gene
Our wide-spread testing for the merle gene presence in LC proved another modification of SILV gene, i.e. the insertion of medium length containing 443 -449 bp (i.e. SINE of 243-249 bp), which seems to be specific for LC breed. Scientists from Biofocus laboratories, who carried genetical analyses, have not found such a modification elsewhere until now. For time being, I called it Ma (a = atypical). The length of this insertion is medium to M and Mc and it affects phenotype less than M, but more than Mc. Dogs heterozygous for Ma (i.e. mMa) are born with solid colored phenotype, which seems to change more or less to the merle pattern during ageing.
Dogs homozygous for this gene, i.e. MaMa, show the merle pattern since a birth, but it is usually all in diluted colors such as blue or yellow. There is no or only a little white color present usually, even if they are double merle, too.
A combined genotype for M and Ma, i.e. MaM, seems to be a typical for patchwork phenotype, which is specific by larger areas of undiluted, leopard and white colors.
Heterozygous dogs for McMa are born as solid colored, showing most probably some merle pattern later as above mentioned (mMa).
The presence of LC specific modification of SILV gene, i.e. Ma, is probably a point missing until now. It explains well those examples, where the merle phenotypes were born out of „solid“ colored parents. At this moment and our present knowledge, it seems that no additional modifiers of the merle gene are needed to explain differences that make the merle gene behave in LC different from other breeds. However, any regulation, modification or cooperation with other genes cannot be excluded fully until we have more information about the merle gene expression mechanisms and a presence, effects and cooperation with e.g. piebald gene, which is surely present in genome of some LC.
It has been noticed that leopard colors are changing during dog life, some are bleaching, some get darker and sometimes finally leopard color is unrecognizable later in a life. It seems that M a Ma modifications are responsible for it. Thus we experience dogs heterozygous for M, i.e. mM, that are born with the typical merle coat pattern and their colors seem to be becoming darker and patches of diluted colors less apparent with increasing age. Contrary to it, dogs heterozygous for Ma, i.e. mMa, are born as solid colored and merle patterns is more and more visible with their ageing. It is at least our present experience. However, the presence of Mc cannot be detected according to the coat color, but only by genetical tests. We do not know exactly, if Mc affects other merle genes (M, Ma) by its presence, because it seems to be very rare in the population of Czech born LC.
Determination of the merle gene
The assay for the merle gene, which is used in Biofocus laboratories, originates from the methods of Clark et al., i.e. PCR analyses of gene products using specific primers. The analyse itself starts with an isolation of DNA from samples taken from dogs. Although it is possible to use buccal swabs from facial cheeks, our practical experience proved that blood is more reliable starting material for DNA isolation. Buccal swab quality is more dependent on skills of collector and probably also duration of storage and transport before analysis. That′s why it is not possible to obtain always a sufficient amount of DNA for a precise detection of modified SILV gene. Our experience shows that if blood samples were used as starting material, the identification of the merle gene was more accurate.
Benefits for breeding programmes
What are benefits which can the knowledge of the merle genotype bring for further LC breeding? This is a question that comes up to many breeders surely. Testing for the merle gene started among members of our club (CC EU), however, other LC owners sent samples for testing on their own, too. Many of them did not know, why it should be done, and they just followed the suite. Some wanted their dogs to be proved not being the merle gene or double merle carriers. From this point of view, they were mostly very disappointed from results they received.
We would like to thank to all, who joined our club effort, cooperated with us and published results of their dogs, and namely to those, who gave us an open access to details of their analysis. It helped us to elucide or suggest more generally rules of the merle gene heredity and traits. We tested various LC within our club with various family relationships, therefore we can finally make some general conclusions out of it.
It is not possible now to test the first imported LC, i.e. the male, Cats Cradles Car, and the female, So. Sloughs Kathy, that were used as the foundation stock here. We cannot even test all of their offsprings at this moment. However, we can estimate their genotypes from phenotypes of their offsprings and their known combinations. Some of them have been tested already, so there is some clue to determine it better than only according to their known phenotype. Now it is possible to evaluate litters born in the past, namely those born from parents of known (i.e. tested) genotypes. Such an analysis enables to prove supposed heredity and it gives us for the future a possibility to predict more precisely genotypes and phenotypes of expected pups. This has been a sphere of a fiction and wishful thinking until now for this breed. It is important namely because it is better to avoid a production of double merles with predominantly white color present in their coat, if it is possible for other reasons. Now we know that it is a case of homozygous for MM and also MaM, where white coloring is an effect of the merle gene and not probably of another white color coding gene, such as e.g. piebald gene. Most health defected pups are born with those above mentioned genotypes.
Our results also show that even in such a „merle gene grown through“ breed, Czech LC population contains probably higher percetage of solid, mm, non-merle dogs than it is usual in other countries. It happened because the foundation stock was of mm (or mMc) and mM genotype and the first generation born here was at least half of mm, solid colored LC. However, further imported LC were mostly of MM or MaM genotypes. This fact means that the merle gene carriers probably exceeded already non-merle, mm dogs. Thus, also majority of solid colored LC is probably of mMa genotype in our present population of LC.
As a byproduct, the knowledge of the merle genotype of one or both parents enables also to prove an accidental breeding, when pups paternity is in question. This is valid namely if sires in question are of different genotypes for the merle gene and phenotypes of pups are impossible to arise only from one of them.
Our Catahoula Club EU is surely going to go on in testing and we surely support also other owners and breeders to do so. Frankly, it makes no sense to keep results of testing for themselves and not to publish it, particularly if only reason is that someone does not like the verdict on the merle gene presence of his/her dog. Moreover, there are not so many possibilities for non-tested or kept secret parents if you know the genotypes of their pups.
We want our breeders to be well informed, therefore we have just started to include the merle gene information of tested parents into pedigree information of their offsprings beside other important tests such as status of hip dysplasia, etc.
Written by RNDr. Helena Synková
for Catahoula Club EU
Explanation of basic terms:
A phenotype is an organism's observable characteristics or traits: such as its morphology, development, biochemical or physiological properties, behavior. Phenotypes result from the expression of an organism's genes as well as the influence of environmental factors and the interactions between the two.
The genotype of an organism is the inherited instructions it carries within its genetic code. Not all organisms with the same genotype look or act the same way because appearance and behavior are modified by environmental and developmental conditions. Similarly, not all organisms that look alike necessarily have the same genotype.
Louisiana Catahoula – a truly merle breed
A topic of the merle gene presence, its traits, manifestation, and heredity is widely discussed among breeders and owners of various dog breeds which are known to carry it. Therefore we had not been expecting any big revelation, when the testing among Louisiana Catahoula in our club started. There were some doubts, of course, namely when unexpected „merle“ phenotypes were born out of solid colored parents. This was also the main reason for us to start looking for an explanation.
A typical merle coat color, i.e. coat with patches of diluted pigment irregularly spread over body and intermingled with undiluted melanin, is known in several breeds, such as Australian Sphepard, Collie, Border Collie, Cardigan Welsh Corgi, Shetland Sheepdog, Dachshund, etc. However, individuals with such a merle coat coloring are not a majority in those breeds. It is probably due to breeding regulations valid for those breeds that prevent combinations of both merle colored parents. The main reason for an existence of such breeding rules is a fact that offsprings of predominantly white color (called double merle) are born from such merle parents and they are known to suffer often from a variety of serious health defects.
However, there is one breed that is famous for its merle colors and leopard patterns – Louisiana Catahoula (LC). It seems that for many breeders from country of its origin, USA, solid colored LC are not so valuable. Thus, a combination of both merle carrying parents is done on purpose to obtain merle carrying offsprings of leopard colors in spite of possible health defects. No surprice then that most dogs of this breed are the merle gene carriers and true solid colored (not carrying the merle gene) are rather rare. Nevertheless, it seems that the breed itself is not endangered by this fact seriously and the occurrence of the merle caused defects is not higher than in other merle carrying breeds.
In 2005, when our first article on this topic was written and published here, the merle gene question and its heredity seemed to be similar to other breeds, so we did not expect any difference in LC. However, the merle gene itself had not been identified yet, so there was no possibility to prove it by any other means than breeding itself. Frankly, there were not so many litters born here at that time and their „results“ fitted quite well to our expectation.
The Merle gene
In 2006, an article of Clark et al. (PNAS 103 (5): 1376-81, 2006) was published and the merle gene was finally identified. It opened an era of possible genetical testing of entire dog populations from this point of view. Clark et al. demonstrated that the gene in question is SILV (Silver locus, Pmel17). Its function is not fully understood, but it is known as one of pigment dilution genes and its significant expression is localized exclusively to the skin and eye. They proved that genetical modifications (mutations) in SILV gene affect its normal function and it results in a coat pattern where a diluted pigment is mixed with patches of normal, undiluted melanin. Non-modified SILV gene is marked as m, while modified versions are marked as M, i.e. the merle gene. Modifications in SILV gene are caused by an insertion of a mobile gene element, called retrotransposon (SINE), which can be of various length, as we know now. It seems that the length of this SINE insertion affects the way how the merle gene manifests itself in dog phenotype.
There were two modification of SILV gene described in the original article of Clark et al. The normal M gene includes the insertion of the length of 459-462 bp. (Actually, the M-specific SINE insertion has a size of about ca 253 bp. Because of coamplification of surrounding sequences of about 200 bp, the size of the amplicon is 459-462 bp then. In dogs of mm-genotype, the SINE insertion is missing, and an amplificate of only 200 bp is present.) It causes the typical merle/leopard coat pattern in dogs, heterozygous for it (mM), and the typical double merle phenotype with predominant white coloring in dogs homozygous (MM).
Another modification referred by Clark et al. contains a shorter insertion of the length of 420-425 (i.e. SINE insertion of 212-225) bp. This modification of SILV gene is called cryptic (phantom) merle, Mc, and it seemes to have no apparent effect on coat coloring. Both heterozygous (mMc) and homozygous (McMc) individuals appear to be of solid coat color, similarly as homozygous dogs with non-modified SILV gene, i.e. mm. As far as we know now, there is only one way to differentiate them from non-merle gene carriers – by genetical testing.
Both above mentioned modifications of SILV gene were described in the original article of Clark et al. They were recognized in all breeds, studied then. The merle gene seems to be inherited in an autosomal, incompletely dominant way. Offspring gets one allel of this gene from both parents and resulting genotypes are divided according to Mendel′s rules.
Catahoula Merle Gene
Our wide-spread testing for the merle gene presence in LC proved another modification of SILV gene, i.e. the insertion of medium length containing 443 -449 bp (i.e. SINE of 243-249 bp), which seems to be specific for LC breed. Scientists from Biofocus laboratories, who carried genetical analyses, have not found such a modification elsewhere until now. For time being, I called it Ma (a = atypical). The length of this insertion is medium to M and Mc and it affects phenotype less than M, but more than Mc. Dogs heterozygous for Ma (i.e. mMa) are born with solid colored phenotype, which seems to change more or less to the merle pattern during ageing.
Dogs homozygous for this gene, i.e. MaMa, show the merle pattern since a birth, but it is usually all in diluted colors such as blue or yellow. There is no or only a little white color present usually, even if they are double merle, too.
A combined genotype for M and Ma, i.e. MaM, seems to be a typical for patchwork phenotype, which is specific by larger areas of undiluted, leopard and white colors.
Heterozygous dogs for McMa are born as solid colored, showing most probably some merle pattern later as above mentioned (mMa).
The presence of LC specific modification of SILV gene, i.e. Ma, is probably a point missing until now. It explains well those examples, where the merle phenotypes were born out of „solid“ colored parents. At this moment and our present knowledge, it seems that no additional modifiers of the merle gene are needed to explain differences that make the merle gene behave in LC different from other breeds. However, any regulation, modification or cooperation with other genes cannot be excluded fully until we have more information about the merle gene expression mechanisms and a presence, effects and cooperation with e.g. piebald gene, which is surely present in genome of some LC.
It has been noticed that leopard colors are changing during dog life, some are bleaching, some get darker and sometimes finally leopard color is unrecognizable later in a life. It seems that M a Ma modifications are responsible for it. Thus we experience dogs heterozygous for M, i.e. mM, that are born with the typical merle coat pattern and their colors seem to be becoming darker and patches of diluted colors less apparent with increasing age. Contrary to it, dogs heterozygous for Ma, i.e. mMa, are born as solid colored and merle patterns is more and more visible with their ageing. It is at least our present experience. However, the presence of Mc cannot be detected according to the coat color, but only by genetical tests. We do not know exactly, if Mc affects other merle genes (M, Ma) by its presence, because it seems to be very rare in the population of Czech born LC.
Determination of the merle gene
The assay for the merle gene, which is used in Biofocus laboratories, originates from the methods of Clark et al., i.e. PCR analyses of gene products using specific primers. The analyse itself starts with an isolation of DNA from samples taken from dogs. Although it is possible to use buccal swabs from facial cheeks, our practical experience proved that blood is more reliable starting material for DNA isolation. Buccal swab quality is more dependent on skills of collector and probably also duration of storage and transport before analysis. That′s why it is not possible to obtain always a sufficient amount of DNA for a precise detection of modified SILV gene. Our experience shows that if blood samples were used as starting material, the identification of the merle gene was more accurate.
Benefits for breeding programmes
What are benefits which can the knowledge of the merle genotype bring for further LC breeding? This is a question that comes up to many breeders surely. Testing for the merle gene started among members of our club (CC EU), however, other LC owners sent samples for testing on their own, too. Many of them did not know, why it should be done, and they just followed the suite. Some wanted their dogs to be proved not being the merle gene or double merle carriers. From this point of view, they were mostly very disappointed from results they received.
We would like to thank to all, who joined our club effort, cooperated with us and published results of their dogs, and namely to those, who gave us an open access to details of their analysis. It helped us to elucide or suggest more generally rules of the merle gene heredity and traits. We tested various LC within our club with various family relationships, therefore we can finally make some general conclusions out of it.
It is not possible now to test the first imported LC, i.e. the male, Cats Cradles Car, and the female, So. Sloughs Kathy, that were used as the foundation stock here. We cannot even test all of their offsprings at this moment. However, we can estimate their genotypes from phenotypes of their offsprings and their known combinations. Some of them have been tested already, so there is some clue to determine it better than only according to their known phenotype. Now it is possible to evaluate litters born in the past, namely those born from parents of known (i.e. tested) genotypes. Such an analysis enables to prove supposed heredity and it gives us for the future a possibility to predict more precisely genotypes and phenotypes of expected pups. This has been a sphere of a fiction and wishful thinking until now for this breed. It is important namely because it is better to avoid a production of double merles with predominantly white color present in their coat, if it is possible for other reasons. Now we know that it is a case of homozygous for MM and also MaM, where white coloring is an effect of the merle gene and not probably of another white color coding gene, such as e.g. piebald gene. Most health defected pups are born with those above mentioned genotypes.
Our results also show that even in such a „merle gene grown through“ breed, Czech LC population contains probably higher percetage of solid, mm, non-merle dogs than it is usual in other countries. It happened because the foundation stock was of mm (or mMc) and mM genotype and the first generation born here was at least half of mm, solid colored LC. However, further imported LC were mostly of MM or MaM genotypes. This fact means that the merle gene carriers probably exceeded already non-merle, mm dogs. Thus, also majority of solid colored LC is probably of mMa genotype in our present population of LC.
As a byproduct, the knowledge of the merle genotype of one or both parents enables also to prove an accidental breeding, when pups paternity is in question. This is valid namely if sires in question are of different genotypes for the merle gene and phenotypes of pups are impossible to arise only from one of them.
Our Catahoula Club EU is surely going to go on in testing and we surely support also other owners and breeders to do so. Frankly, it makes no sense to keep results of testing for themselves and not to publish it, particularly if only reason is that someone does not like the verdict on the merle gene presence of his/her dog. Moreover, there are not so many possibilities for non-tested or kept secret parents if you know the genotypes of their pups.
We want our breeders to be well informed, therefore we have just started to include the merle gene information of tested parents into pedigree information of their offsprings beside other important tests such as status of hip dysplasia, etc.
Written by RNDr. Helena Synková
for Catahoula Club EU
Explanation of basic terms:
A phenotype is an organism's observable characteristics or traits: such as its morphology, development, biochemical or physiological properties, behavior. Phenotypes result from the expression of an organism's genes as well as the influence of environmental factors and the interactions between the two.
The genotype of an organism is the inherited instructions it carries within its genetic code. Not all organisms with the same genotype look or act the same way because appearance and behavior are modified by environmental and developmental conditions. Similarly, not all organisms that look alike necessarily have the same genotype.
- Marjoleine
- Zeer actief
- Berichten: 53089
- Lid geworden op: 02 sep 2004 14:18
- Mijn ras(sen): Friese en Cubaanse hounen
- Locatie: de polder
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Fairmate, dat snap ik.Fairmate schreef:Voor alle duidelijkheid..![]()
EW is voor ons een afkorting voor het excessive white. Dit heeft dat ook weer te maken met de letale factor wat doofheid en blndheid kan veroorzaken. Ook te maken met het peibald gene wat alle zoogdieren kunnen dragen.
En dat piebald is wat ik telkens noem. Dat ligt op S-locus. Dat heet bont in het Nederlands.
Maar ik ben een beetje ingevoerd in de genetica en de kleurencodes, de lettercodes dus, die zijn internationaal.
Die gebruiken ze dus ook in Amerika.
En ik snap wel dat jullie die termen gebruiken, maar daarom is het nog steeds wel fout.
Als het een troost is: vrijwel alle rassen hebben eigen termen, die vaak verwarrend werken.
Maar dit is wel voor het eerst dat ik een term tegenkom die eruit ziet als een code maar dat dus niet is. En dát vind ik meer dan lastig. Vandaar dat ik erover zeur.
-
Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Meterik
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
het is een Amerikaans ras en we houden de Amerikaanse termen aan, en het is OF solid ( eenkleurig) OF Leopard/ Merle ( kleine vlekken) OF Patchwork( grote vlekken) OF Patchy Leopard ( Grote vlekken met leopard spots erbij, eigenlijk zoals onze 2 reuen van het nestje. Oscar en Appie)Machie schreef:Waarom noemen jullie bonte honden niet gewoon bont?
Red Patchy Leoaprd

Black Patchy Leopard 2e van rechts, naast de Red Patchy Leoaprd. Zie je het verschil tussen de gewone Leopard/merle en de Patchy Leopard?

-
Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Meterik
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Marjoleine schreef:Fairmate, dat snap ik.Fairmate schreef:Voor alle duidelijkheid..![]()
EW is voor ons een afkorting voor het excessive white. Dit heeft dat ook weer te maken met de letale factor wat doofheid en blndheid kan veroorzaken. Ook te maken met het peibald gene wat alle zoogdieren kunnen dragen.
En dat piebald is wat ik telkens noem. Dat ligt op S-locus. Dat heet bont in het Nederlands.
Maar ik ben een beetje ingevoerd in de genetica en de kleurencodes, de lettercodes dus, die zijn internationaal.
Die gebruiken ze dus ook in Amerika.
En ik snap wel dat jullie die termen gebruiken, maar daarom is het nog steeds wel fout.
Als het een troost is: vrijwel alle rassen hebben eigen termen, die vaak verwarrend werken.
Maar dit is wel voor het eerst dat ik een term tegenkom die eruit ziet als een code maar dat dus niet is. En dát vind ik meer dan lastig. Vandaar dat ik erover zeur.
Aha, Piebald heet bont in het Nederlands, dat wist ik niet..
Bij de teckels heet het merle tijger geloof ik, en bij de dog Harlekijn..ieder ras heeft zijn eigen benaming eraan, dat klopt. Dit zijn in iedergeval de kleuren/ benamingen die wij gebruiken..
- Marjoleine
- Zeer actief
- Berichten: 53089
- Lid geworden op: 02 sep 2004 14:18
- Mijn ras(sen): Friese en Cubaanse hounen
- Locatie: de polder
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Ja, maar er is niets mis mee gewoon de internationaal erkende termen aan te houden. Ook voor die Amerikanen niet.Fairmate schreef:het is een Amerikaans ras en we houden de Amerikaanse termen aan, en het is OF solid ( eenkleurig) OF Leopard/ Merle ( kleine vlekken) OF Patchwork( grote vlekken) OF Patchy Leopard ( Grote vlekken met leopard spots erbij, eigenlijk zoals onze 2 reuen van het nestje. Oscar en Appie)Machie schreef:Waarom noemen jullie bonte honden niet gewoon bont?
Die erkende termen zijn namelijk niet Nederlands, dat zijn erkende internationale genetica-termen.
Die is tanpoint, heRed Patchy Leoaprd
Nee, je bent me even kwijt.Black Patchy Leopard 2e van rechts, naast de Red Patchy Leoaprd. Zie je het verschil tussen de gewone Leopard/merle en de Patchy Leopard?
Doe eens van links naar rechts?
-
sbientje
- Zeer actief
- Berichten: 28766
- Lid geworden op: 08 jun 2007 09:00
- Mijn ras(sen): Labrador Retriever
- Aantal honden: 2
- Locatie: Oosterhout
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
die patchy leopard heeft grotere donkere vlekken, toch?
-
Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Meterik
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Blue Leopard, Blue Leopard, Solid red& brindle, Black/Blue Patchy Leopard, Red Patchy Leopard. De patches zijn groter. Deze benaming hebben ze de pups op de NALC ( National Assosiation Louisiana Catahoula) stamboom gegeven. Deze benamingen zijn er zo al vanaf het begin dat het ras erkent/ geregistreerd werd in 1951.Marjoleine schreef:Ja, maar er is niets mis mee gewoon de internationaal erkende termen aan te houden. Ook voor die Amerikanen niet.Fairmate schreef:het is een Amerikaans ras en we houden de Amerikaanse termen aan, en het is OF solid ( eenkleurig) OF Leopard/ Merle ( kleine vlekken) OF Patchwork( grote vlekken) OF Patchy Leopard ( Grote vlekken met leopard spots erbij, eigenlijk zoals onze 2 reuen van het nestje. Oscar en Appie)Machie schreef:Waarom noemen jullie bonte honden niet gewoon bont?
Die erkende termen zijn namelijk niet Nederlands, dat zijn erkende internationale genetica-termen.
Die is tanpoint, heRed Patchy LeoaprdUhhhhmm ja??
![]()
Nee, je bent me even kwijt.Black Patchy Leopard 2e van rechts, naast de Red Patchy Leoaprd. Zie je het verschil tussen de gewone Leopard/merle en de Patchy Leopard?
Doe eens van links naar rechts?
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Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
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- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
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Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
sbientje schreef:die patchy leopard heeft grotere donkere vlekken, toch?
Juist! Het woord zegt het eigenlijk al..toch
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Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
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- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Tara schreef:Ingewikkeld allemaal zeg!![]()
*noteert: ret petsjie leppert, blek petsjie leppert, paaibolt...*
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sbientje
- Zeer actief
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- Mijn ras(sen): Labrador Retriever
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Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
op de een of andere manier dacht ik altijd dat het piebolt was, maar nu maak je me onzekerTara schreef:Ingewikkeld allemaal zeg!![]()
*noteert: ret petsjie leppert, blek petsjie leppert, paaibolt...*
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sbientje
- Zeer actief
- Berichten: 28766
- Lid geworden op: 08 jun 2007 09:00
- Mijn ras(sen): Labrador Retriever
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- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
if you've got a problem, don't care what it is..Tara schreef:Ik word daar niet onzeker van, ik neem gewoon weer een witte, net als de vorige drie...sbientje schreef:op de een of andere manier dacht ik altijd dat het piebolt was, maar nu maak je me onzekerTara schreef:Ingewikkeld allemaal zeg!![]()
*noteert: ret petsjie leppert, blek petsjie leppert, paaibolt...*
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Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Meterik
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Het is Piebald en dieren die dit hebben, hebben vaak grote gedeeltes van het lichaam waar geen pigment is.
Piebald gen
is een kleurgen, welke verantwoordelijk is voor het witte haar bij bijvoorbeeld de Bull Terriër en de Dalmatiër, en die doofheid kan veroorzaken; zie cochleaire doofheid.
A piebald or pied animal is one that has a spotting pattern of large unpigmented, usually white, areas of hair, feathers, or scales and normally pigmented patches, generally black. The colour of the animal's skin underneath its coat is also pigmented under the dark patches and unpigmented under the white patches. This alternating colour pattern is irregular and asymmetrical. Animals with this pattern may include horses, dogs, birds, cats, pigs, and cattle, as well as snakes such as the ball python. Some animals also exhibit colouration of the irises of the eye that match the surrounding skin (blue eyes for pink skin, brown for dark). The underlying genetic cause is related to a condition known as leucism.
Dit komt dus veel voor bij de Catahoula.
Piebald gen
is een kleurgen, welke verantwoordelijk is voor het witte haar bij bijvoorbeeld de Bull Terriër en de Dalmatiër, en die doofheid kan veroorzaken; zie cochleaire doofheid.
A piebald or pied animal is one that has a spotting pattern of large unpigmented, usually white, areas of hair, feathers, or scales and normally pigmented patches, generally black. The colour of the animal's skin underneath its coat is also pigmented under the dark patches and unpigmented under the white patches. This alternating colour pattern is irregular and asymmetrical. Animals with this pattern may include horses, dogs, birds, cats, pigs, and cattle, as well as snakes such as the ball python. Some animals also exhibit colouration of the irises of the eye that match the surrounding skin (blue eyes for pink skin, brown for dark). The underlying genetic cause is related to a condition known as leucism.
Dit komt dus veel voor bij de Catahoula.
- Machie
- Zeer actief
- Berichten: 33099
- Lid geworden op: 05 okt 2009 11:20
- Mijn ras(sen): Puli, kruising golden retriever X wetterhoun, kruising Pumi, Hrvatski ovčar, Border Collie
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Bij de berg!
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Marjoleine, welke namen hebben dit rijtje honden volgens het normale systeem?Fairmate schreef:
Blue Leopard, Blue Leopard, Solid red& brindle, Black/Blue Patchy Leopard, Red Patchy Leopard. De patches zijn groter. Deze benaming hebben ze de pups op de NALC ( National Assosiation Louisiana Catahoula) stamboom gegeven. Deze benamingen zijn er zo al vanaf het begin dat het ras erkent/ geregistreerd werd in 1951.
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sbientje
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- Berichten: 28766
- Lid geworden op: 08 jun 2007 09:00
- Mijn ras(sen): Labrador Retriever
- Aantal honden: 2
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- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
ja maar ik doelde op de uitspraak. paai of pieFairmate schreef:Het is Piebald en dieren die dit hebben, hebben vaak grote gedeeltes van het lichaam waar geen pigment is.
Piebald gen
is een kleurgen, welke verantwoordelijk is voor het witte haar bij bijvoorbeeld de Bull Terriër en de Dalmatiër, en die doofheid kan veroorzaken; zie cochleaire doofheid.
A piebald or pied animal is one that has a spotting pattern of large unpigmented, usually white, areas of hair, feathers, or scales and normally pigmented patches, generally black. The colour of the animal's skin underneath its coat is also pigmented under the dark patches and unpigmented under the white patches. This alternating colour pattern is irregular and asymmetrical. Animals with this pattern may include horses, dogs, birds, cats, pigs, and cattle, as well as snakes such as the ball python. Some animals also exhibit colouration of the irises of the eye that match the surrounding skin (blue eyes for pink skin, brown for dark). The underlying genetic cause is related to a condition known as leucism.
Dit komt dus veel voor bij de Catahoula.
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Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Meterik
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Machie schreef:Marjoleine, welke namen hebben dit rijtje honden volgens het normale systeem?Fairmate schreef:
Blue Leopard, Blue Leopard, Solid red& brindle, Black/Blue Patchy Leopard, Red Patchy Leopard. De patches zijn groter. Deze benaming hebben ze de pups op de NALC ( National Assosiation Louisiana Catahoula) stamboom gegeven. Deze benamingen zijn er zo al vanaf het begin dat het ras erkent/ geregistreerd werd in 1951.
Dit is het normale systeem..we willen toch niet alles vernederlandsen...
- Machie
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- Mijn ras(sen): Puli, kruising golden retriever X wetterhoun, kruising Pumi, Hrvatski ovčar, Border Collie
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Bij de berg!
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Nouja, ik wil gewoon de normaal gangbare internationale namenFairmate schreef:Dit is het normale systeem..we willen toch niet alles vernederlandsen...Machie schreef: Marjoleine, welke namen hebben dit rijtje honden volgens het normale systeem?
EN ik weet zeker dat Marjoleine me die kan vertellen.
Die bruine pup heeft bv tanpoint
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sbientje
- Zeer actief
- Berichten: 28766
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- Mijn ras(sen): Labrador Retriever
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Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
die linkse lijkt ookw el tanpoint te hebben, al is het op de achterpootjes lastig te zien..
- Maeve
- Zeer actief
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- Lid geworden op: 03 mei 2008 22:37
- Mijn ras(sen): Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever
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- Locatie: Enschede
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Das niet echt vernederlandsen toch? In het engels heb je ook vaste termen (piebald ipv bont bijvoorbeeld) maar dan wel algemeen, niet verschillend per ras.
Ik gok:
1: Bluemerle met tanpoint
2: Bluemerle
3: Bruin met tanpoint + gestroomd?
4: Bluemerle
5: Redmerle met tanpoint
Ik gok:
1: Bluemerle met tanpoint
2: Bluemerle
3: Bruin met tanpoint + gestroomd?
4: Bluemerle
5: Redmerle met tanpoint
- Maeve
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Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Oh en ik spreek het in ieder geval uit als paaibold. Piebald op zn Nederlands vind ik zo gek klinken 
- Machie
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- Locatie: Bij de berg!
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Ik dacht hetzelfde.Maeve schreef:Das niet echt vernederlandsen toch? In het engels heb je ook vaste termen (piebald ipv bont bijvoorbeeld) maar dan wel algemeen, niet verschillend per ras.
Ik gok:
1: Bluemerle met tanpoint
2: Bluemerle
3: Bruin met tanpoint + gestroomd?
4: Bluemerle
5: Redmerle met tanpoint
en idd nr 3 gestroomd. Hij heeft streepjes op het tan
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sbientje
- Zeer actief
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- Mijn ras(sen): Labrador Retriever
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Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
ja idd, paaaaibold.. Ik leer iedere dag wat bij
- -Gaby-
- Zeer actief
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- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leopard Dog, Tamaskan
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- Locatie: Groningen
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Wat betreft patchwork bij de Catahoula en andere rassen, hier een topic voor geïnteresseerden
: http://www.hondenforum.nl/plaza/viewtop ... 2&t=180291
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Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
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Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Het heet bij ons, Blue merle tan trim of zoals onze red solid brindle trim. Of red leopard tan trim, of red solid copper trim.
Ja natuurlijk spreek je het uit als Paaibold maar we schrijven toch niet alles zoals we het uitspreken??
Vertel een US fokker van Catahoula de kleurnamen van blue merle met tanpoint en hij zal je heel stom aankijken..
We wijken een beetje van het onderwerp af..
Hier trouwens een leuke foto van 15-16 honden..onze Jack Russell loopt iedere keer uit beeld..7 Catahoulas, 5 Heidewachtels, 1 Jack Russell en 3 mix..
4 Catahoulas en Jacky van ons, 5 Heidewachtels van een vriendin, 3 Catahoulas en 3 mix van een Duitse vriendin..


Ja natuurlijk spreek je het uit als Paaibold maar we schrijven toch niet alles zoals we het uitspreken??
Vertel een US fokker van Catahoula de kleurnamen van blue merle met tanpoint en hij zal je heel stom aankijken..
We wijken een beetje van het onderwerp af..
Hier trouwens een leuke foto van 15-16 honden..onze Jack Russell loopt iedere keer uit beeld..7 Catahoulas, 5 Heidewachtels, 1 Jack Russell en 3 mix..
4 Catahoulas en Jacky van ons, 5 Heidewachtels van een vriendin, 3 Catahoulas en 3 mix van een Duitse vriendin..


Laatst gewijzigd door Fairmate op 14 feb 2012 22:35, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.
- Machie
- Zeer actief
- Berichten: 33099
- Lid geworden op: 05 okt 2009 11:20
- Mijn ras(sen): Puli, kruising golden retriever X wetterhoun, kruising Pumi, Hrvatski ovčar, Border Collie
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Bij de berg!
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
En ik een zwarteTara schreef: Ik ga toch maar weer voor een grijze, ik zou geloof ik helemaal gek worden als ik dát allemaal moest onthouden.
- Maeve
- Zeer actief
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Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Jaja, dus points = trim? En wat is het verschil tussen tan trim en copper trim?
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Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
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- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Fairmate schreef:Het heet bij ons, Blue merle tan trim of zoals onze red solid brindle trim. Of red leopard tan trim, of red solid copper trim.
Ja natuurlijk spreek je het uit als Paaibold maar we schrijven toch niet alles zoals we het uitspreken??
Vertel een US fokker van Catahoula de kleurnamen van blue merle met tanpoint en hij zal je heel stom aankijken..
We wijken een beetje van het onderwerp af..![]()
Hier trouwens een leuke foto van 15-16 honden..onze Jack Russell loopt iedere keer uit beeld..7 Catahoulas, 5 Heidewachtels, 1 Jack Russell en 3 mix..
4 Catahoulas en Jacky van ons, 5 Heidewachtels van een vriendin, 3 Catahoulas en 3 mix van een Duitse vriendin..
Ff een verandering aangebracht in de tekst, geen blue merle met brindle trim maar Blue merle tan trim..en solid red met brindle trim
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Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Meterik
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
De kleur van tan trim is lichter van kleur als de donkere copper trim..en het loopt mooi in elkaar over, tan is net als de Doberman liver en tan, of de black and tan. Deze is met copper trim, het is geen gestroomd, lijkt wel zo op de foto..Maeve schreef:Jaja, dus points = trim? En wat is het verschil tussen tan trim en copper trim?

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Fairmate
- Vaste gebruiker
- Berichten: 46
- Lid geworden op: 12 feb 2012 11:17
- Mijn ras(sen): Louisiana Catahoula Leoparddog, Jack Russell
- Aantal honden: 5
- Locatie: Meterik
- Contacteer:
Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Fairmate schreef:De kleur van tan trim is lichter van kleur als de donkere copper trim..en het loopt mooi in elkaar over, tan is net als de Doberman liver en tan, of de black and tan. Deze is met copper trim, het is geen gestroomd, lijkt wel zo op de foto..Maeve schreef:Jaja, dus points = trim? En wat is het verschil tussen tan trim en copper trim?
Deze is een beter voorbeeld:
Vader van de aankomende pups..met Nisse

- Maeve
- Zeer actief
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- Mijn ras(sen): Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever
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Re: Inteelt, wat zijn de ergste consequenties??
Ah, duidelijk 

